Curse

Age · Oct 09, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25

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Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Teams are clearly the point of the discussion, given we were discussing keeping the team alive and resurrecting.

I didn't say anything about team when talking about 600 SB or 55 but if they can spam 2 e spells so can any other Monk keeping a team alive.

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Show me a screenshot/video of your Monk producing 300+ health heals per second and still having energy to cast other big spells for an indefinite period and I'll believe you. However, given this is impossible, you are wrong. I seriously don't know why I bothered arguing with you again, you clearly have no remote idea what you're talking about.

I am sure an Ele can't do this or any other class and I don't have vid camera.We can out heal them.

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Yes, but back to my previous analogy: ER is like bringing a gun to a fist fight. You're going to need a supernaturally powerful guy to win on the fist fight side. Unless you're comparing a really good monk to a really bad ER (which has no relevance whatsoever*) the ER should come out on top in general PvE circumstances.

I would say most ER are bad as they are keeping terrible players alive which is why most good Monks have left the game for greener pasture.

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*You bringing up useless irrlevant things is happening a lot in this discussion... actually, you haven't brought up anything that is particularly relevant at all.

I do to it is just you don't want to listen.

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Have you seen SoJ (whichever one you're referring to) used in current PvE hero setups? What about PvP builds? Speedclears? The answer to those is no (or stop taking build advice from idiots). Hopefully that means something to you...

Yes I have seen roJ work fine for me and I ma talking about Monks in PvP as they out do Eles and ER wouldn't work

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Also, rofl at 'I've been playing longer than you'. That is possibly the worst argument you've made so far. Even if you take my forum registration date as my GW beginning date it's definitely long enough to not classify me as a beginner.

No you haven't been playing longer than I have and yes your board reg. date say 2006 mine is 2005.This isn't the only GW board I am on and and was given tip and help.We also advocated for UAS changes to sprint or frenzy no other board did this except that one.

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PS: I've been playing since ~June 2005.

i have been playing longer stated Monking in the Halls.

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PSS: Using 'I've been playing longer than you' just makes you look like an immature fool who has no valid arguments whatsoever.

I given you a few but you haven't given any yourself

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No, but this is a PvE discussion. Anyone who runs an ER knows that it's for PvE. PvE is not a tiny niche with incredibly obscure requirements. Designing for it is completely legitimate. If we were discussing PvP, which we aren't, then ER would be useless and I would agree that Monks are better, but I repeat: this is a PvE discussion.

Yeah that is because most pve players today are terrible and want to rush everything.

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There is nothing to say to this but you are wrong. That is a fact. If this is not obvious to you, I advise you to stop posting and showing the world you have no remote idea what you are talking about.

I am not wrong though and what does the second sentence mean no free speech around here I guess.

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No. The difference is that Warriors (referring to 100B here) achieve the same goal (killing) but in a different way. Sins will spam DB/MS or whatever to drop single targets quickly and produce good AoE damage through DB. 100B Wars can kill a whole mob in one go with Whirlwind Attack.

Sins can also use swords and axes to.

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FGJ+EC=10 adr. Yes, you are doing it wrong. Building adrenaline engines is simple in PvE.

No I am not but think about the recharge of FGJ 45 sec.

PS. If you think Monks are bad and make terrible healers why not just delete them as well as the Monk forum.I see a lot of Monk hate here and on the Guru2.This is plain evidence of why there should be a Monks in GW2 as well going back to the old party system.It is because there a lot of hate on the Gurus of Monks which to me as Monk main player is insulting.It is is no wonder Monk the good players left this game and won't return even for GW2.

Zodiac Meteor · Oct 09, 2010, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I am sure an Ele can't do this or any other class and I don't have vid camera. We can out heal them.

I have a video for you!
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 10, 2010, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Robes

Learn to read the 1st post

1) I was referring to the debate between me and Age about Monks vs. ER.
2) I believe the OP wants seperate 'bests' for PvE and PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I didn't say anything about team when talking about 600 SB or 55 but if they can spam 2 e spells so can any other Monk keeping a team alive.

Is it not clear we're comparing which is better at keeping the team alive? Solo builds have no relevance here, nor can they keep a team alive. Show me screenshots of you beating, say, Duncan in HM without cons (definitely possible) where the backline consists purely of 55monks. When you do that I'll agree.

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I am sure an Ele can't do this or any other class and I don't have vid camera.We can out heal them.

A MONK CANNOT OUT HEAL AN ER! How many times must I write this before it gets through? You seem to be unable to see this yourself, so I'll give you a proper comparison.

ER: Infuse Health - no energy cost with ER, no health cost with ER*, no recharge, 250 health sacrifice x 1.22 ([email protected]) = 300+health.

*Health will level out somewhere near halfway. It makes no difference as they can cover themselves with Prot Spirit/Spirit Bond/whatever whenever they want to.

The Monk needs to find something that can surpass this and be maintainable. Lets look at some of the options (assuming a 12+1+1/10+1/8+1 split between heal/prot/divine here).

WoH: Assuming you cast it on someone below 50% each time (which doesn't happen) you get 232 health every 4 seconds (not counting aftercast). That's 58 health per second. Not even remotely close.

HB+Heal Other: 284 health every 4 seconds, not counting aftercast. 71 health per second. Again, not even remotely close.

HB+DKiss: Let's be stupid and assume the target has 20, yes, 20 enchants/hexes. All up that would be 761 health. On a 4 second recast rate, it still only results in 190 health per second. It's better than the other two, but please don't try to convince me it's normal to have 20 enchants and hexes on you (not to mention we're not even 2/3 of the way to 300 health/second). Also, given that no normal player will have 761 health, that 190 will be much less because of over healing.

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I would say most ER are bad as they are keeping terrible players alive which is why most good Monks have left the game for greener pasture.

So player x is bad because the rest of the people in their team is? Um... no. While it is true that it is easy for an ER player to just mash buttons randomly and win (unlike Monks), a good ER can employ the same tricks a Monk uses to make them good. Watching the field and such.

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I do to it is just you don't want to listen.

No, you're just whining and saying 'omg thats not true thats not true!!'. I've requested you somehow show me that SoJ is good damage, how Monks can heal 300 health per second, etc, but all of your arguments don't relate to anything that matters or actually explain or prove anything, like I have been doing.

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Yes I have seen roJ work fine for me and I ma talking about Monks in PvP as they out do Eles and ER wouldn't work

Maybe you should actually clarify which skill we're referring to here? RoJ is a decent damage skill. SoJ (whichever we're talking about) is not. Let me say this again. We are comparing which of the Monk or ER is better at keeping the team alive. Smite bars and solo builds should not come up in this discussion.

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No you haven't been playing longer than I have and yes your board reg. date say 2006 mine is 2005.This isn't the only GW board I am on and and was given tip and help.We also advocated for UAS changes to sprint or frenzy no other board did this except that one.

i have been playing longer stated Monking in the Halls.

I've come to the conclusion you're by far the worst player I've ever argued with. Just because you started earlier (which you didn't) doesn't make you a better player, and given the crap you've been spouting in this thread and the other one we debated in, you're almost definitely not.

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I given you a few but you haven't given any yourself

See above.

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Yeah that is because most pve players today are terrible and want to rush everything.

No, people want to get things done quicker because it means they can do more things in less time. You may be aware that many people use cars to get around rather than walking. This is because it gets them to what they want quicker. Why should the same not apply to GW?

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I am not wrong though and what does the second sentence mean no free speech around here I guess.

It's a piece of advice indicating you might want to stop posting so people don't classify you as an immature fool or other less family-friendly things.

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Sins can also use swords and axes to.

And...? Wars are better at it.

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No I am not but think about the recharge of FGJ 45 sec.

100B will kill a mob before FGJ runs out. Recharge isn't particularly relevant in that situation. It was only one example anyway. I've seen teams using "To the Limit" in 100B builds as well. That's only on a 15 second recharge.

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PS. If you think Monks are bad and make terrible healers why not just delete them as well as the Monk forum.I see a lot of Monk hate here and on the Guru2.This is plain evidence of why there should be a Monks in GW2 as well going back to the old party system.It is because there a lot of hate on the Gurus of Monks which to me as Monk main player is insulting.It is is no wonder Monk the good players left this game and won't return even for GW2.

I never said I hated Monks or that they are useless. I believe I actually mentioned this in one of my previous posts. I like Monks. I would much prefer that ER couldn't be abused the way it is and the art of Monking was still in place. Things move on however, and you need to accept it.

Age · Oct 10, 2010, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Is it not clear we're comparing which is better at keeping the team alive? Solo builds have no relevance here, nor can they keep a team alive. Show me screenshots of you beating, say, Duncan in HM without cons (definitely possible) where the backline consists purely of 55monks. When you do that I'll agree.

I didn't say solo builds

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I've come to the conclusion you're by far the worst player I've ever argued with. Just because you started earlier (which you didn't) doesn't make you a better player, and given the crap you've been spouting in this thread and the other one we debated in, you're almost definitely not.

I did start way before you ever did and I am not the worst player actually one of the good ones as to how many guild invites I got playing My Monk.

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I never said I hated Monks or that they are useless. I believe I actually mentioned this in one of my previous posts. I like Monks. I would much prefer that ER couldn't be abused the way it is and the art of Monking was still in place. Things move on however, and you need to accept it.

It certainly seems that way to me as you have said nothing positive about Monks in this thread.I have heard nothing but negative remarks that you commented on about the main class I play.

I will say that Eles are great doing AoE damage but not healing or protecting.I am seriously giving up on you as you don't know or want to know how a Monk works.So I am throwing in the white flag.I could go on but it isn't worth my mental health do so.

btw I wouldn't never become a Lawyer or a Politician if I were you.

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 10, 2010, 02:04 AM // 02:04

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Originally Posted by Age

I didn't say solo builds

Uhh... you mentioned 55 Monks. Please tell me you don't run a 55 Monk in a team.

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I did start way before you ever did and I am not the worst player actually one of the good ones as to how many guild invites I got playing My Monk.

It's also good to know you've been reading my posts properly. I started in approximately June/July 2005. That's a couple of months after release. Not that it actually matters though. The fact that you think it does and that it automatically makes you better implies you have nothing better to argue and don't really have any idea what you're talking about. Learn to bring valid arguments to a debate. You still haven't made any.

PS: I said you were horrible at arguing, not at playing. I do not bring things into this argument that I do not know about. Your playing skill is one such thing.

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It certainly seems that way to me as you have said nothing positive about Monks in this thread.I have heard nothing but negative remarks that you commented on about the main class I play.

Once again, I never said anything bad about monks. All I've been doing is trying to show you that ER allows an Ele to outperform them. There is a difference between 'a Monk cannot match up to this' and 'rofl Monks are shit you play a shit profession you fail'. The former is a comparison and the latter are negative remarks.

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I will say that Eles are great doing AoE damage but not healing or protecting.I am seriously giving up on you as you don't know or want to know how a Monk works.So I am throwing in the white flag.I could go on but it isn't worth my mental health do so.

Very well. You are entitled to believe what you like but you've managed to prove to me and probably everyone else reading this you have no remote idea what you're talking about. You never once bothered to try to prove your claims while I clearly did. I'm happy to admit I'm wrong if you show me I am, but until you do so I'm just going to continue to regard you as the worst player I've ever argued with.

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btw I wouldn't never become a Lawyer or a Politician if I were you.

Whatever. PS: proofreading and grammar are good.

MArcSinus · Oct 10, 2010, 03:11 AM // 03:11

An ER clearly provides better healing than a monk, anyone who can count can figure that out, why is this even an discussion?

Monks however, provide excellent options like party wide heal, rez and hex+condition removal, which the ER lack.

The question is of course, does this matter when you can spam infuse health to your liking? Not really, just let an other player take a rez and you're done.

The only negative thing about ER's is of course that it's enchantment based.
But cover enchants can be easily applied. Monks also rely on enchants (HB and UA) anyway.

LifeInfusion · Oct 10, 2010, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I will say that Eles are great doing AoE damage but not healing or protecting.I am seriously giving up on you as you don't know or want to know how a Monk works.So I am throwing in the white flag.I could go on but it isn't worth my mental health do so.

btw I wouldn't never become a Lawyer or a Politician if I were you.

Not to nitpick but you went completely offtopic and Eles and nuking is a big solid no. (see Ensign's why nuking sucks). Meteor shower does 100 or so on paper but in reality does about 40-50 in hard mode; even less to Rangers and warriors. Hell, even Rodgort's Invocation (137ish) does only 40 sometimes. Only Searing Flames pulls ahead in Hard mode against mobs that don't have high armor and/or fire and burning resistance but a good Mark of Pain necro will outdo it with more than 2 physicals in the group. Fire is semi-decent with a mind blast bar to fuel PvE skills but nuking sucks unless you are wasting time balling the mobs with 60 armor.

Today in Vizunah's Square Hard mode I ran a Mind Blast bar with rodgort's and the casts were doing about 90 to the caster mobs with 16 Fire Magic. For 25 energy, 2 cast, and 8 cool-down, it is mediocre at best. The only consolation is mindblast was fueling YMLAD, Vanguard assassin support, and other PvE skills, which has few alternatives without relying on Assassin's Promise (shouts and such aren't reduced by Glyph of lesser energy). Vizunah's square is basically the threshold for Fire being useful...it's jam packed , close-quarters, and has no fire resistant mobs.

I play a monk and also have tried ER protting, N/Rt healing. There's no doubt that Ether renewal single handedly makes monks' energy management laughable and N/Rts with Restoration make spot heals like Orison or Healing Whisper look terrible because Soul Reaping is absolutely ridiculous with a MM in the team.

In enchantment removal zones where Ether renewal isn't viable, Healer's Boon, Word of Healing, and Unyielding Aura can pull ahead by pure redbarring by virtue of boosted heals on short recharge times. However, on a monk you will rarely get to spit out 10 energy prots on recharge given things like Glyph of Lesser energy or Auspicious Incantation are on 30 and 25 cooldown, respectively. On my monk, I favor Healer's Boon because 1 second Healing Prayers spells can't compare with 3/4 casts from WoH or Mend Body & Soul (which also removes a condition stack), or Soothing Memories unless they are at least as powerful as Spirit Light (read: 150+ heal for 5 energy). Patient Spirit and Dwayna's Kiss also are strong monk heals, so it's not like monks are bad healers. It's that they don't have the energy for prots and heal spam, so party healing (see Heal Party, Light of Deliverance, Divine Healing) , hex removal (Cure hex, Deny hexes, Divert hexes, Peace and Harmony, Holy veil) , or spike heals (Word of Healing, Healer's Boon, Unyielding aura) are the focus, especially in parties with Save Yourselves, There's Nothing to Fear, and/or Panic.

When you started playing is irrelevant if you're incapable of adapting to skill balances. That's why you should never get too attached to a skill. Marty Silverblade never said "monks suck". He just pointed out the flaw in your thinking, which you countered by saying "monks heal more" and "I have been playing longer so I must be right".

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Originally Posted by MArcSinus

The only negative thing about ER's is of course that it's enchantment based.
But cover enchants can be easily applied. Monks also rely on enchants (HB and UA) anyway.

The thing about HB/UA monks is if the enchant is stripped it takes 10 seconds cooldown and it is usually precasted so it's a nonissue. If it is stripped then you still have the potency of 14 healing prayers. If Ether renewal is stripped you can't cast 10 energy spells like you would under ER until 30 seconds later (basically an entire battle) and Infuse Health becomes a huge liability. The risk is higher.

Anyhow. This is a very heated topic...

Lanier · Oct 10, 2010, 04:41 AM // 04:41

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Originally Posted by Age

No you haven't been playing longer than I have and yes your board reg. date say 2006 mine is 2005.

Wait a second... since when has the date you joined guild wars guru = the date you started playing guild wars? That like... doesn't even make since at all. Since I joined the forums in 2010, does that mean Iv been playing the game for less than a year? This definitely isn't true, as I have been playing for almost 4 years.

Also... ER's are rediculously overpowered at healing. Being able to throw off free 300+ heals as fast as you can switch targets and press the button's hotkey is completely OP. I don't really see how anyone can deny this...

Age · Oct 10, 2010, 07:16 AM // 07:16

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Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Uhh... you mentioned 55 Monks. Please tell me you don't run a 55 Monk in a team.

That is not what I said

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It's also good to know you've been reading my posts properly. I started in approximately June/July 2005. That's a couple of months after release. Not that it actually matters though. The fact that you think it does and that it automatically makes you better implies you have nothing better to argue and don't really have any idea what you're talking about. Learn to bring valid arguments to a debate. You still haven't made any.

That is nice . I started before in beta weekend events as I got one of the oldest Guilds in the game.

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PS: I said you were horrible at arguing, not at playing. I do not bring things into this argument that I do not know about. Your playing skill is one such thing.

I am I good thing we aren't having this in person or I would be beating you at it.

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Once again, I never said anything bad about monks. All I've been doing is trying to show you that ER allows an Ele to outperform them. There is a difference between 'a Monk cannot match up to this' and 'rofl Monks are shit you play a shit profession you fail'. The former is a comparison and the latter are negative remarks.

You have said it here then and this proves you hate Monks as you they are shit and you admit it.I would resign as Guru Moderator and if I were an Admin. strip you of that title.

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Very well. You are entitled to believe what you like but you've managed to prove to me and probably everyone else reading this you have no remote idea what you're talking about. You never once bothered to try to prove your claims while I clearly did. I'm happy to admit I'm wrong if you show me I am, but until you do so I'm just going to continue to regard you as the worst player I've ever argued with.

I do know what I am talking about and I am not the worst player.I said I am one of the better Monks in this game as I got lots of invites.

Your name is getting very popular on google atm and will continue.

@ Life Where did I say nuking I said AoE damage which could be anything?

@Lanier I never registered here first Thank Goodness but as a better board who advocated for UAS and the change to sprint or frenzy it made all happen.

Morphy · Oct 10, 2010, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Stop feeding the troll, guys.

Naphtali · Oct 10, 2010, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Don't argue with Age. He's immune to common sense and made up his mind long ago. Nothing can change it.

And to stay on topic...
Best profession?
None.

Best designed profession?
I say warrior. High damage, utility and easy to shutdown requires you to know what you're doing to perform well. A well balanced profession, with a few exceptions, of course.

**Marty Silverblade** · Oct 11, 2010, 01:00 AM // 01:00

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Originally Posted by Age

That is not what I said

That's precisely what you said. You brought up 55 Monks.

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That is nice . I started before in beta weekend events as I got one of the oldest Guilds in the game.

Whatever. I don't care when you started. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER. Time played does not necessarily correlate with skill. The fact that you're hanging on to it indicates you've got nothing better to say.

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I am I good thing we aren't having this in person or I would be beating you at it.

Rofl. Spouting random bullshit now are we?

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You have said it here then and this proves you hate Monks as you they are shit and you admit it.I would resign as Guru Moderator and if I were an Admin. strip you of that title.

Learn to read. That snippet shows you are stuck in 2005 with your stubborn arrogant biases and personal prejudices. If you bothered to actually read what I wrote you would see I was demonstrating the difference between comparisons and flaming.

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I do know what I am talking about and I am not the worst player.I said I am one of the better Monks in this game as I got lots of invites.

Again, read my posts before spouting some crap that does not apply to me.

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Your name is getting very popular on google atm and will continue.

Ok. Fine. Your point?

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@ Life Where did I say nuking I said AoE damage which could be anything?

Elementalist AoE damage usually refers to nuking. The fact you claimed it was good shows how little you know about the game these days.

Zodiac Meteor · Oct 11, 2010, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Oooo, this is going to be fun!

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Originally Posted by Age

I will say that Eles are great doing AoE damage but not healing or protecting.

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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

WRONG!

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Originally Posted by Age

I am sure an Ele can't do this or any other class and I don't have vid camera.We can out heal them.

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Originally Posted by MArcSinus

An ER clearly provides better healing than a monk, anyone who can count can figure that out, why is this even an discussion?

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Originally Posted by Marty

I've come to the conclusion you're by far the worst player I've ever argued with.

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Originally Posted by Age

I am not the worst player actually one of the good ones as to how many guild invites I got playing My Monk.

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Originally Posted by Marty

A Monk cannot spam 10e prots like Prot Spirit, Shield Guardian, and Spirit Bond on recharge. Ele's can do this without having to worry about energy whatsoever. A Monk must be selective.

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Originally Posted by Age

They can to, ever hear of the SB as well the 55 Monk both spam 2 10e spells

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Originally Posted by Age

I didn't say anything about team when talking about 600 SB or 55 but if they can spam 2 e spells so can any other Monk keeping a team alive.

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Originally Posted by Age

Yes they can spam 10 e spells and they heal as well, nothing an Ele can do.

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Originally Posted by Age

I didn't say solo builds

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Originally Posted by Age

We do not run out of energy as if you read anything about Divine Favor is is our E-Mange

You hear that guys?! Monks never run out of energy! So if your team died and your monk says:

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Originally Posted by Monk that got Energy Surged+Energy Burn

No energy

It lied to you! You really died because the other team did more damage than your monk spamming high energy, low recharge, fast casting skills.
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Age, I respect you being a long term Guild Wars player. But, practically everything you said was dead wrong. It's beyond a little wrong as you cannot be more far off.
I'll be more than welcome of the idea that we meet in-game and share each-others arguments.

Monks are not bad.
ER Infusers are not bad.
Both have their good and bad, just that on the scale an ER's good outweighs the monks good.
Are they a replacer? Hell no, Eles didn't take a monks job and never will. Why? Monks are not bad.

By the way, in Guild Wars 2, Elementalists water magic has a few healing spells that you can directly heal allies. It might be the only attribute in game that has strong healing capabilities.
ER Infuse, intentional or not on ArenaNet's side. They know about it and not going to fix it.
I love that my main character can switch from support, damage and healing on the fly.

reaper with no name · Oct 11, 2010, 06:21 PM // 18:21

The Warrior.

In PvP, they're technically very overpowered (damage, defense, self-healing, spiking, and disruption in only 2 attributes without a secondary? On any other class that would be considered crazy), but the counters to them are equally overpowered so we don't mind it (when you need to block half of a guy's attacks just to bring his damage down to a manageable level, well, that says something). However, the game was designed this way for a reason (promotes skillful play), and I wouldn't give it up for anything. Still, the combination of utility and sheer offense that warriors can pump out makes them a dominant force in just about any PvP format.

But what about PvE? Well, as we all know warriors are the classic melee class, and have a wide variety of powerful builds, some of which are so strong other classes can only dream of such power. SY is one of the most powerful skills in the game. Enduring Scythe alone renders the entire dervish profession obsolete. Bring HB, WA, and a necromancer with MoP and you can wipe out entire mobs in seconds.

There's really no other profession that is quite as dominant in both formats as the warrior. (monks come close, but they've slowly been losing ground to alternative healing builds in PvE).

I Hate Chips · Oct 11, 2010, 06:50 PM // 18:50

endless discussion....
Please can someone see this?

chuckles79 · Oct 11, 2010, 07:55 PM // 19:55

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Originally Posted by Black Metal

dervish in pve and paragon in pvp

.................................................. .................................................. ...................WTF!........................... .................WTF!

seriously, i mean seriously? Dervishes, so gimped in PvE that anet is going to do an update.

Paras, who's prof. specific skill is Leadership, which requires more people to hear the chants/shouts for it to be beneficial (only GvG sees benes)

Morphy · Oct 12, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

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Originally Posted by ilr

ROFLCOPTER

Soi soi soi

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They're NOT prevalent though.

? I see them in PvP all the time. As for PvE, it sometimes gets replaced by E/Mo's and Rt/any or any/Rts, but they play a pretty large role there as well.

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The most farmed mobs in the game don't have any monks among them.

Your point? That's poor mob composition, not poor class design. If you pick a philosophy when you start developing a game (in this case, direct defense comes mostly from Monks and the game being centered around disabling/protecting them), you need to stick to it. PvE has always been utter crap, this hasn't changed since Prophecies.

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Before nightfall came out, most of your time playing the game was spent waiting for a monk to show up. And the ONLY REASON monks seemed useful and required in the first place was because all the combat in the game was designed specifically around the assumption that every team had high levels of Healing or exactly 1 dedicated healer for every 3 spikers/nukers.

Again, this is bad why exactly? All this just means you have to rely more on teamwork, which is a competence that contributes to balance. It's a different model from one that completely lacks Monks, but that doesn't make it an inferior one unless you have a specific reason to believe so.

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That's not how you design a class. You don't put 1 class into the game, and then design the Game around that 1 class.

Why? If it leads to skillful play, it really doesn't matter at all.

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But that's what Anet did with Monks b/c it originally started out 100% as a PvP game that had PvE tacked onto. And Now that GW2 is coming out with that whole paradigm flipped on it's head and making huge news b/c of it, it's really really really .... really .... really .... reeeeeaaaaallllly hard to argue for those old crutches that have also been being slowly removed from GW1 (Spirits Summons & AotL buffs = better meatshields, Mesmer control buffs like Panic replacing reactive Mitigation entirely, Tactics got buffed liek whoah, & Dervishes up next for rebalancing)

I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. People got more godmode skills and PvE got even easier, while some of these changes slipped into the PvP side of the game causing terrible meta's that took a while to get removed and a dumbing down of a couple of gameplay aspects. From a PvP perspective, that's nothing but negative things.

GW2 might or might not work out (I'm guessing it will), but Monks being in it or not has neither a positive nor a negative effect on the game. In practice, it will probably lead to more "complete" characters (unless they add some other dependance on your teammates to the game), which means small scale battles will be less build-warsey but teamwork will play a smaller role, ie 4v4 will play more like 2v2 + 2v2 if you know what I'm saying.

Adul · Oct 12, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Lately I enjoy playing an assassin in PvE. They're able to dish out very impressive amounts of damage in short bursts, plus they are somewhat vulnerable compared to warriors and may even die sometimes if you're not careful. (And I enjoy when I need to be a little bit careful occasionally. I'm weird like that.)

P.S. Before anyone makes a post about how I'm mistaken and assassins are not vulnerable in PvE, please read through what I wrote again.

Sword Hammer Axe · Oct 12, 2010, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Warrior. They are the funniest ^^ Also like Ranger, Sin and Mesmer

Thorinfire · Oct 12, 2010, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Rangers of course